I’m with @clorgie and guess I always have been. Even private likes set expectations in pursuit of those likes. E.g., a person ‘liked’ 9 of my 10 posts. I may fixate on why that person didn’t like that one post. Also, people may or may not ‘like’ a post for several reasons one of which may be they simply didn’t see it because they were busy IRL. ‘Likes’ also bring with the baggage of reciprocal likes (let’s like each other or I liked 10 of your posts but you only like 8 of mine, what gives?)
As someone who worked closely with renowned psychologists, we used such manipulations to test behavior all the time hence perhaps I’m more skeptical of them.
I’m of course talking about giving users a choice regarding if they want boosts or not. I don’t think you should be forced to live with my preference, and I shouldn’t be forced to live with yours.
On most Mastodon apps you can choose if you want to see boosts in your timeline or not, and you can also turn it off for specific profiles. (I don’t need to say why that’s sometimes useful.)
I totally get that some people don’t want boosts - and you should be able to have it your way. But the people I follow boosts lots of good stuff - and I don’t want to move over to Micro.blog and lose all of that.
First, love Phanpy for the way it handles boosts. It has nailed down the way web apps & the timeline view should look. Second, Micro.blog was set up way back in 2017 with certain principles in mind - no likes, retweets/boosts, and not even follower/following counts. You don’t even know who is following you (no, I am not financially or otherwise involved in Micro.blog).
It’s an interesting and different “social network” that tbh, attracted me to it. I can always create a Mastodon account and do everything you say it does so well. But once a platform offers a choice, it has to live with the actions that come with that choice. On Micro.blog, those actions are comments. If you like a post, let the author know even if it’s an emoji that adds a bit of friction than a simple tap. You follow people based on the replies you see they make on other posts. Peruse the Discover Feed. I find plenty of people that way.
Manton is being explicit about that choice and perhaps losing many potential subscribers. Unless he decides he wants to grow his business exponentially, it’s his decision to make. I use Micro.blog to curb my tempations for the usual social media engagement metric because like it or not, it changes your behavior (I was part of the team that studied this in academic research). I have a Mastodon account where I cross-post (most of) my Micro.blog posts and see people like/boost/reply.
I agree. My preference is no likes or reactions. But if it’s coming then I prefer that to be private. If Micro.blog started to take on more of the social media look, feel, and function I would most likely move on.
I understand that things grow and change but I like the way Micro.blog currently feels and would support anything that doesn’t undermine that.
I’m not asking for “social media engagement metrics” - I specifically said I’m perfectly fine with numbers being hidden. I just want to be able to see the content the people I follow “post”.
As mentioned in the OP, the main reason I want to be able to use Micro.blog for microblogging, is the writing tools. But when using social media like this, reading, replying and writing original posts are intertwined. I don’t think I should have to use Mastodon just to be able to see people’s boosts or be able to know if someone from Firefish liked what I posted (which they think I received).
Or perhaps reading stuff on Mastodon, and finding something I’d like to reply to - but since I want to write on Micro.blog, I have to use the share sheet or something to open the link from Mastodon in Micro.blog…
But after reading this discussion, I have some concrete suggestions (which should be evaluated individually):
(I wanted to have them work well for those who prefer Micro.blog the way it is now, and also have them adhering to the principles the platform is made upon.)
Suggestion A: Private and voluntary “appreciations” - without metrics
In user settings:
Know when someone appreciates one of your posts. Automatically appreciate posts you bookmark.
Some details:
I think the first should be on by default, but the second off.
IMO, more emojis aren’t needed, and is not part of the suggestion - but it’s obviously possible.
Have likes from other ActivityPub services “translate” to appreciations - and the other way around. If there are more emojis, just have all of them translate into a like, and have likes from ActivityPub map to the default one.
Simply add a heart symbol or something under posts. And it can ofc. be named whatever.
Maybe (if possible) have the heart not be there if it senses that a Micro.blog user doesn’t have appreciations turned on. (Or just send the click into the void. Also, the Fediverse doesn’t need to know either way.)
Suggestion B: User controlled inboundboosts
In user settings:
By default, see posts boosted by people you follow.
On other people’s profiles:
See/Don’t see posts boosted by Name.
Some details
I’m not suggesting Micro.blog add the ability to boost posts - but I think user should be able to choose whether to see boosts done by the people they follow.
It should also be possible to turn in on/off for individual accounts (whether you have the global option on or off).
In time, something like what Phanpy does would be neat - but not needed in an MVP.
This is, of course, 100 % @manton’s call (I can only vote with my feet and wallet, and try to contribute ideas). But I truly belive those changes would make Micro.blog a substantially better place to consume, for those who want these things, while not messing things up for those who prefer it the way it is. It would also make Micro.blog play more nicely with the rest of the Fediverse.
This is kind of tangential, but definitely related to “consuming fediverse” content-- some accounts I follow post polls, which micro.blog silently omits. It’d be cool if polls worked, or at least include some indicator that part of the post couldn’t be displayed on micro.blog.
This conversation is converting me to the “no likes” side of the discussion. Sending an actual comment is nicer, and it doesn’t take a lot more effort to write, “Nice photo!” or “Thanks!” or just send an emoji.
However, I remain a staunch supporter of boosts/reblogs—both showing and doing them. As a poster, I use boosts/reblogs to draw my readers’ attention to posts I think they will find interesting. As a reader, I like boosts/reblogs to find posts that the people I follow find interesting.
I share a lot of the same feelings as many of you. For sure love the strength and toolset of micro.blog and wont be going anywhere. However, I’ve missed the ability to “boost”. I can live without ‘like’ support but emoji support would be neat.
I cobbled a boost solution by using embed from the web timeline. Hidden from my main blog page but shows in the timelines like a boost. Also have them separated in their own category: Shares I’d sure like to see this embed button in the mobile app
If something similar was a native for boosts, like Replies, for sure would want to be able to filter them out like we can on our profile settings.
Would also be neat to see the boosts from other fediverse accounts and the ability to turn off.
I knew that sounded familiar—and, yes, I’m a former heavy Twitter user, and yes I hated the way they showed me posts that other people liked.
To me, that violates what the “like” button is for. If I think my followers might be interested in seeing a post, I’ll retweet it. A like is just an acknowledgment or show of support. Nobody needs to see that but the recipient.
I very much like the way Threads surfaces conversations that the people I follow are participating in. It helps me find interesting discussions and people to follow.
I think we are all in agreement that nobody here wants like and boost metrics. We don’t care how many likes or boosts a post got. But some of us (me included) would like to be able to boost posts and see other people’s boosts.
I very much like not knowing how many people follow me here. Even if you like seeing follower numbers, the raw number is of limited usefulness. Many of the accounts that follow you will be bots, and abandoned accounts.
If “boosted” posts were its own timeline and not mixed in with the regular timeline, I can be convinced to accept its inclusion. It also could be a user-based Discover timeline of posts with high number of boosts at the top of the timeline. If a post gets > 50 boosts (random number that popped in my head), it’s taken off after 24 hours.
Isn’t "Nice photo!” or “Thanks!” or just send an emoji just as meaningless as @devilgate has suggested the Likes are? Aren’t likes just a short hand way of saying “Nice photo!”?
Instagram has a feature to disable like and comments on a post. Why can’t we have that here?
Since @manton isn’t interested in algorithms then all the arguments made here about that are moot. There are no algorithms on micro.blog to exploit user behavior. That argument keeps coming up and it’s a distraction.
I think @Havn is asking for a way to receive some high fives that THEY can personally see. They are not asking for the feature to be forced on anyone.
Let’s resolve to think of ways for @Havn request to be fulfilled and let go of the “You can’t have that thing because I am morally against it even if I never intend to use it and can’t see it”.
Know when someone appreciates one of your posts.
)
